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tv   Larry King Live  CNN  December 12, 2009 9:00pm-10:00pm EST

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sold him to lashkar-e-taiba, the army of the righteous at their branch office in his village.
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the whole idea is to shoot those as soon as possible and the strategy -- >> kasab's capture had been reported on tv. now his masters wanted him back. the gunmen inside nariman house
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forced one of the hostages to call the israeli consulate. then they made her speak to brother wasi in pakistan. >> brother wasi had promised norma he would release her and the other hostage in exchange for kasab. >> brother wasi briefed the gunman on what to say to the
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indian government. he warned him not to let slip that the rabbi and his wife had already been murdered. >> as the terrorists waited for the indian government to call, the holtzbergs 2-year-old son wandered among the bodies, including those of his mother and father. the little boy's nanny, who had hidden inside the house overnight later snatched him and escaped.
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after much delay, 400 commandos had arrived from delhi to take over the operation. they began to engage the terrorists. on the 18th floor of the oberoi hotel they cornered two gunmen who by now had murdered 35 people at the hotel.
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>> the next time professor wasi called fahadulla was still hiding in the bathroom.
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[ gun fire ] >> it was 10:00 p.m., 24 hours into the attack and the call from the indian government to nariman house had still not come. again brother wasi turned to his superiors.
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>> for an hour the gunman hesitated. finally brother wasi's patience ran out.
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>> friday dawned, 36 hours into the attack. brother wasi told the gunmen at nariman house it was time to die. >> nine hours after the jewish hostages were murdered, the commandos finally attacked.
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>> an hour later, the gunman spoke to brother wasi for the last time. [ female announcer ] get more of what you love when you create
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brother wasi's work was done. for three days the terrorists he directed had dom neated the world's headlines. the identity of brother wasi and the other controllers still has not been established. in his interrogation kasab, the sole surviving gupman, named the mastermind of the operation.
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zaki-ur rehman lakhvi, the head of the lashkar-e-taiba, has been arrested by the pakistani authority. his trial is being held in secret. kasab has confessed his part in the attack. if convicted he may be hanged. >> we broke him psychologically. we realized we had told him if you commit jihad and you die for the cause, there is a scent emanating from your dead body, there is a glow on the face. so we asked him who told you this? he said the instructors told us this is what happened. they had seen people who died fighting for jihad. this is what happens.
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we did take him to the morgue and we showed him the nine dead bodies there. the shock on his face i think it dawned on him that whatever he had done he was taken for a ride by the instructors and there was no truth whatsoever in what they had told him. >> joint commissioner, the mumbai chief of police, has been moved from his post and given responsibility for police housing. 170 people died in the attack on mumbai. many were muslims, including 12-year-old afroz.
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with more than 2,000 offices
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in towns and villages, lashkar-e-taiba, the army of the righteous is deeply embedded in pakistani society. it remains close to it backers within the pakistani intelligence services. pakistan has an arsenal of nuclear warheads and is one of america's key allies. during the attack, lashkar-e-taiba controller had briefed one of the mumbai gunmen on what to say when the media called.
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>> we have just been warned by the terrorists that the main film is yet to come. the horror we have seen is simply the trailer. how worried should we be? let me give you some background. the group responsible for these attacks, lashkar-e-taiba, was created to wage war in kashmir, the territory that has been under dispute with india and pakistan since 1947. lashkar was supported by the pakistani military. there is little evidence that pakistan's generals are making any serious effort to shut down what has become a vast oergs within their country. lashkar-e-taiba's stated goals go beyond cash misch to all of south asia. it pamphlets are filled with attacks on hindus and jews. like al qaeda, it could be
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morphing into something larger and much more sinister. terrorism is waged by individuals. we saw these young peasant boys who had little education and no prospects in their country. they are the ones who enlist for the jihad. we have political and ideological forces on one hand and the simple despair of young men on the other. the two have combined to create a deadly mix. the only way this movie will end well is if we tackle both sides of this problem. we need to get the military and foreign policy right. we need to change the sense of hopelessness and culture of hate that exists in these societies. we need to help these young men you just watched embrace life rather than death.
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the fbi had been watching naji buhl zazy for month, born
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in afghanistan, allegedly plotting to attack subway stations. video of this place, grand central terminal. zazy is one of a string of homegrown terror arrests this year. i'm drew griffin with cnn's special investigative unit. >> i'm nick robison. as america's homeland security chief said just days ago, home-based terror is here. if 2001 was osama bin laden's year, 2009 belongs to the terrorist next door. this is a cnn siu special report, "homegrown terror." >> right here in the united states there are groups that applaud osama bin laden. they want to convert americans to wage war on their own country. one of those groups is based in new york, revolution muslim. their teaching in stark contrast
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to most muslim preachers, but they are not hard to find. these are the brothers of revolution muslim. >> we tell you muslims to rise up. >> they are recruiting just outside new york's 96th street mosque. inside thousands of faithful muslims pray here, practice their faith and listen to the message of peace. the imam says he detests the messages of hate being yelled right outside his door but there is not much he can do. >> they are bringing destructive behavior into our community. the mainstream muslims are disgusted with their behavior. >> almost every friday after prayers, the unwelcomed guests arrive to spread their anger. >> commands that you disavow and make hatred between democracy, between nationalism, between secularism and you see obama as the enemy he really is, that you
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see the united states as the enemy it really is. >> usef al katab and younas, born and raised in the united states a country whose way of life they say they hate. only hours after the attack at ft. hood their website was praises nidal malik hasan. they called him an officer and a gentleman. in fact, in an interview in a week bf the shootings the brothers of revolution muslim were telling cnn it was every muslim's duty to terrorize. and if you are not a muslim, they count you as a disbeliever. their mission, to terrorize you. >> we are commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. this is a religion, like i said. >> you are commanded to
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terrorize the disbelievers. >> the koran says terrorize them. it is a command from allah. you define terrorism as killing an innocent civilian. i define terrorism as making them fearful so they think twice before they rape your mother, kill your brother or go on your land and steal your resources. >> that jihadist version of islam that allows them to conclude the killing of american soldiers overseas is justified, that the attack of 9/11 was also justified and an attack on almost any american is justified. >> americans will always be a legitimate target until america changes its nature in the international arena. >> in separate and disturbing interviews, both look to one man as the true living model of islam.
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osama bin laden. >> i love osama bin laden. i love him, like i can't begin to tell you because i haven't seen that he's really done anything wrong. i love him more than i love myself. >> what they want is u.s. forces to be defeated. for a muslim holy land stretching from china to rome and yes, they yearn for the day israel will vanish. so you would like israel to be bombed? >> do you think that is a rational comeback. >> i'm asking you. >> i would like to israel wiped off the map. i would like to see the people guided to their original countries. >> they may seem crazy to you but you are not their target audience. the fbi has assigned agents to watch them, to monitor their website and perhaps more importantly, watch those who are viewing and listening.
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like a young new yorker who pled guilty in a plot to blow up the long island railroad. he met with kataab. >> i know he was a good muslim. >> maldenado arrested in texas for receiving military training with somali terrorists, mahana was arrested in boston. the revolution muslim partners say they do not fight themselves and do not incite others to fight. but make no mistake, they want you to become a muslim. they want americans to die. >> i would not do it myself. is obama a murderer, a tyrant, a scumbag? absolutely he is. if they killed him would i shed a tear? absolutely. do i incite his murder? we don't preach that. >> the mosques have tried to prevent that kind of hatred from
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being preached by calling police. there is little police or the fbi can do to stop these radicalizers. they are protected by legal rights in a country they detest. less strident than revolution muslim is an american-born preacher anwaral alaki. >> quite a mix of people he has met in his travels including three of the 9/11 hijackers. he received e-mails from ft. hood shooting suspect nidal hasan. more from my colleague nick robertson in a moment. thanks for coming.
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some security analysts say his teachings are radical islam for dummies, but don't be fooled by the glibness. the muslim cleric has been crafty enough to escape capture on three continents and charismatic enough to draw big crowds and comparisons. >> it was an opening. >> anwar al alaki. the radical yemen-based preacher seen herrion line. his followers say he is like osama bin laden. >> he reminds me of for example osama bin laden and za warhi. >> he said hand me over your scrolls. >> this is the same man who
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exchanged e-mails with major nidal hasan accused of killing 13 people at ft. hood. after the killings, he praised hasan on his website calling him a hero. the website is down now. six years ago he moved from the u.s. to london and this man was one of thousands who flocked to his lectures. >> people loved his classes. >> for these radical muslims in london, alwaki was god's messenger. >> he doesn't say fight until there is no more corruption. it is alla that says that. it is the verse that inspires the people, not imam alwaki. >> even though his website is down and he is in hidings, dvds of his teachings are still for sale openly taking a prominent
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place in bookstores like this in london keeping his radical message alive. the newest dvd set sells out in the open for $100. the storekeeper says he is doing good business and the people he sells them to think alwaki is mainstream. and this video with the ominous title "the end of time, a new beginning" shows him inexpiring his viewers in a 45-minute broadcast. whether he wants it or, alwaki has inspired people to terrorism. in london court transcripts reveal that least some of the frup that conspired to blow up passenger jets were alwaki devotees, two terrorists in toronto convicted of planning to
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blow up targets in canada and in the united states. six men arrested in may 2007 and convicted of planning to kill soldiers at ft. dix in new jersey. what you are hearing are three of the four ft. dix plotters praising alwaki. why he is so influential is a combination of birth and upbringing. he was born in the united states. his father was a minister in the yemeni government. he is smart and privileged. he preached in imam j oorhar malik's mosque in virginia. >> young, handsome, has the benefit of english without an accent and who also is proficient in the arabic language. in fact, he is technically an
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arab. what better mix? >> he doesn't agree with alwaki's extreme views and denounces the killings at ft. hood. it was here at malik's mosque he met two of the 9/11 bombers. the 9/11 commission reports that before this he was on the fbi's radar. according to the commission, by the time we sought to interview him in 2003 he had left the united states. but what's on everybody's mind now is what influence alwaki may have had on major hasan in the e-mails they exchanged months before the ft. hood shootings. >> so he told him, where are you heading? >> it is evident the money is pouring in and the message is getting out. so where is the money going and what will alwaki's followers do with the message? some of those followers as you
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heard inspired to act, plots foiled on both sides of the atlantic, but this one would have been big. >> he knew it would cause chaos, damage, destruction and he timed it so that, you know, he timed it. he wanted to do it around 9/11. >> an anniversary attack paying homage to al qaeda brought down by a muslim mole. drew griffin has that next. introducing blueprint. blueprint's free and exclusively for chase customers. for a big purchase, there's split. it lets you decide how much... or how many months you want to pay. so you can be comfortable managing all of your large purchases. if having a plan matters, chase what matters. create your own blueprint at chase.com/blueprint.
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close they came to pulling it off and how some of those convicted may soon be back on the street. investigators say this is the devastation their bomb would have caused. the aim, kill as many canadians as possible. the target, downtown toronto. three buildings, three bombs all right here in the heart of downtown toronto and all to go off almost simultaneously using one cell phone. >> it would be that same phone, probably would have been three different numbers so i mean the time it takes to dial three numbers. >> mubin shaikh was the mole on the inside, a paid informant of canadian police and this was the so-called ringleader of the conspiraco
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conspira conspiracy, seen here on a fbi tape testing a detonator. >> he knew it would cause chaos, destruction. he timed it so he wanted to do it around 9/11. he wanted it to have the maximum effect on the canadian psyche and the public psyche and that is where the strength of terrorism lies. shaikh, a muslim youth director in toronto infiltrated the group, most of them teenagers. he calls them high school friends who had played soccer together. he said they begun looking at perceived injustice towards muslims around the world. they became homegrown terrorists bent on killing in hopes they would become famous among their heroes. osama bin laden, the taliban and radical clerk anwar al alwaki.
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>> it is a hobby. they are online and then it is a cause for celebration when one goes and does something. >> toronto's police chief, the toronto 18 is the new and growing threat of terror. >> it is one thing to keep a threat outside your borders. it is another to realize that threat can germinate and grow inside your borders and inside your own communities. >> what prevented catastrophe three years ago was inside information allowing shaikh to penetrate the group actually going on these training missions. this undercover tape the group practices guerilla war tactics. also caught on tape purchases what the would-be terrorists thought were large quantities of
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amonium nitrate. this police demonstration was to show a jury how powerful those bombs would have been. you don't say that lightly. they could have killed obtain all the chemicals they were trying to obtain, had they been able to detonate that in the city of toronto, thousands of citizens would be killed. >> this is your city? >> it is. born and raised. home grown. >> reporter: it's fair to say, it could have happened, had mubine sheik not intervened. but his spying on the toronto a-team has made him an outcast in the city and neighborhood he grew up. he's now considered a rat by some in toronto's muslim community. he has no regrets, because had the plan worked, he knows muslims would no longer be welcome here. >> i thought to myself, really. i'm born and raised here, i love this place. i thought, it would have been
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over. i may as well just burn my passport and find some hole in the ground to live in. >> reporter: what may surprise you even more than the plaque to kill tho kill thousands of canadians is the punishment handed down for trying to pull it off. one got a 14-year prison sentence but can apply for parole in just 2.5 years. the other will be sentenced in january. zakaria amara has plead guilty and faces a sentence next month of up to life in prison. but in canada, life means 25 years with the possibility for parole after serving just 15. one man was convicted of taking part in a terrorist group and is already free. charges against seven others were either dropped or stayed.
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toronto's police chief doesn't believe the punishments fit the crime. >> had they been successful, they could have killed thousands of citizens in the city. they were not successful, thank god. and the outcome of the criminal justice process should reflect what might have happened. >> reporter: one thing we can say, the blinders have come off. >> we're canadians, we're nice people in general. why would anybody want to hurt us? that no longer holds true, even for canada. >> reporter: when we comment back, what the toronto 18 can teach all of us about battling home grown hatred. grill: holy moly!!! what just hap...whoa! grill: i mean...wow! hey! that looks great. grill: and there's no need to discuss it further. in fact, you can buff most of that out. just give it a once-over with a wet paper towel...hee, hee
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the toronto 18 suburban canadian teenagers, plotting their own tribute to 9/11, an outlandish idea once before this wave of home grown terrorism. i talked about local and global counter terror techniques with zach zacardelli, he was the former head of the royal canadian mounted police and now director of strategic planning for interpoll. >> the toronto 18 case has struck me in so many different ways, but primarily because of how close this group came and what they were planning to do in canada. in toronto. when you found out about it, what was your reaction? >> shock.
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we now know it can happen to us, canadians in some cases have been naive thinking, we're canadians, we're nice people in general. why would anyone want to hurt us. >> these were canadians? >> they were pretty much suburban kids, right? >> absolutely, they were canadians, and that's what shocked a lot of countries in the western world. this new phenomena post 9/11, the idea that you actually can deal with a terrorist that comes from somewhere else, that comes with an ideology or belief that's so foreign to us and wants to attack our way of life. but to think that somebody in canada or in the united states or what we call the home grown terrorist can grow up amongst us, and actually buy into this perverted ideology and attack something we just -- we're still trying to grapple with. >> is that the next wave, the next danger, not so much i come with a passport terrorist, but
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the home grown incubating inhouse kind of hatred that leads to a tragic event? >> i think you have to look after all possibilities now, i think at one point -- before 9/11, we thought it would come from the outside, from one or two countries from a certain group of people. now, post 911, and post this homegrown terrorism, we have to lay out all possibilities. the key to responding to that, of course, is to better prepare yourself in partnership, in league with your colleagues, in your country and indeed with your neighbors in your continent and indeed around the world. >> who is reaching them. who was planting this hatred in their heads, and how do you stop that? how do you stop the imam who may be on a friday prayer, preaches this, when your ears are not list thing. or the website that is come across the internet? that's the huge challenge, and, of course, again, the more that we can talk about our values, as
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a society, the more we can talk to the communities to make sure that where you have these aberrations, these few people that actually do buy into these ideologies, we know about them and can reach out to them. the vast majority of people in these communities are hardworking good people. but for whatever reason, some of them get marginalized in society, they become susceptible to this type of perverted ideology, and they can buy into it. the key is to identify who these people are, where the ideologies are being espoused and try to deal with it. we are not used to having to deal with that. it's a struggle for us in canada, the united states and certainly in europe. >> reporter: the world is changing, and while radicals plotting terror across the globe is nothing knew. what is new, those radicals just may be

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